[discussion] kara in a dress

[bantha_fodder]

Look, to those of you who are still spoiler free, the subject line of this post is not a spoiler. I'm sure, by now, you've seen her wearing a dress in someone's icon. However, the rest of this spec may get spoilery, so please proceed to under the cut.


Let's talk about The Dress.

1. Where did Kara get it from? She doesn't strike me as the sort of soldier to keep a dress in her locker. If she's going to an official celebration, she's more likely to wear her dress uniform. So, random officer? Cashing in a favour with a civilian? If the latter, then when would she have had a chance to make contact (real contact) with a civilian, and bring the conversation around to a dress in her size that flatters her?

2. WHY is she wearing a dress? I feel like Kara would have worn her dress uniform to her own wedding. If we ever see her imagining herself in a flowing white wedding gown, there will be some mighty fist shaking. My personal pet theory, is that she is wearing the dress (however she came across it) in order to make Lee notice. Which of course, does not gel with the notion that she is a bit fucked up, and therefore sees big DO NOT TOUCH signs pointing to Lee.

3. Could she be the sort of loud, boisterous tomboy kind of girl who occasionally likes to dress up and remember that she's pretty? I only mention this because it is possible. That was me, at one point.

4. On a ship that I believe is really, really gender equal, that doesn't just pay lip service but actually is, why is it that the men are still in uniform but the women are in dresses? I refuse to believe they had that many dresses that fit that well and were that pretty left on the Battlestar Galactica. Yes, they could have scrounged them out of the fleet, but I find that highly unlikely.

5. Unless all survivors had to hand their clothes over to some central depot, in order to redistribute/ration. Because surely some people had entire wardrobes whilst others had the clothes on their backs; there will be rationing, and I bet some people are losing weight (especially those on the Galactica).


PS party in meyerlemon's journal.

Comments

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

Intriguing! My thoughts:

1) I don't know. This is one of the things that made me not like this episode quite so much, as it seemed very fanficcy. I could buy Kara having a going-out-outfit, but a formal gown? That stretches the bounds of credibility. I suppose she could have borrowed it off a crewmate, but, again- I doubt it. The Galactica is essentially a Navy aircraft carrier, and I really doubt that girls on American Navy aircraft carriers haul evening gowns around with them. A clubbing outfit, maybe. But not this thing.

2) I think she wore it because Lee told her she needed to wash her jacket, (which, btw, I thought was AWESOME.) thereby implying that he sees her as significantly less than feminine. So she set out to prove to him that she could out-hot the Joneses. Of course, I don't think that changed Lee's mind. He already thinks she's hot, no matter what she's wearing. Only, of course, because Kara's fucked up, she doesn't realize that.

3) Hmm! Could be! She has hitherto not seemed conflicted about such things, but it's certainly possible.

4) I believe that in the US military, this is sort of how it is, though. At official functions, men wear their dress uniforms, and women can usually choose between an ugly "gala uniform" or a formal gown. But overall, again, FANFIC CENTRAL.

5) I'm intrigued by the clothing depot redistribution service. Hmmm.

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

1. More or less fanficcy than the sexing? The queue for writing fanfic will be right there, next to Six where she is standing by that mirror looking all sad and huffy.

2. I do not remember LEe telling her that she needs to wash her jacket. REWATCH.

He already thinks she's hot, no matter what she's wearing.

Especially when she's naked. (I'm sorry, I'm obviously male and adolescent)

3. I don't mean to imply that she's conflicted. It could just be one of those things she likes doing every now and then. You know, it makes her special - she can be tough and pretty. Or something.

5. I thought you would be. It's your sort of thing, along with the tampons and toilet paper. :o)

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

The queue for writing fanfic will be right there, next to Six where she is standing by that mirror looking all sad and huffy.

It's actually like a little orgy there, isn't it? Between the Lee in Starbuck's head, and the Six in Baltar's head ... So we've got Six watching Baltar have sex with Starbuck who's imagining it's Lee instead. (::attempts to plot on a chart::)

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

What if Imaginary!Six and Imaginary!Lee started doing it next to Real!Kara and Real!Baltar?

*boggles*

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I’m surprised Six hasn’t been interested in Lee ;) But then if she’s Baltar’s imaginary Six, I highly doubt he’s going to be making her interested in other guys! Real Six (or one of the many versions of her) might be - she seemed like Helo quite a bit before Boomer shot her ;)

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

It's intriguing that the Six who was complaining about Boomer thinking she couldn't live without Helo then looked all sad because she had never experienced romantic love.

Um, that thought doesn't really go anywhere. I'm just saying.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

the Six who was complaining about Boomer thinking she couldn't live without Helo then looked all sad because she had never experienced romantic love.

Yeah, she looks like she's about to cry - it's fascinating that they want the same emotions as humans or want to be able to experience them ...

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

On a related topic, I can't believe Boomer hasn't noticed how differently she reacts to things, compared to other people.

[themonkeycabal.livejournal.com]

This was the episode that made me want to write Starbuck in the style of Bridget Jones fic. As a joke, of course, don't shoot.

Beyond that, I have no answer to the mystery of the origin of the dress.

I think she wore it to get Lee to notice and then, oops, he noticed, and he noticed a lot, in a rather slack-jawed manner, and she spooked. And since she is all manner of fucked-up, and self-destructive, she went for something that was easy and attachment free. It also feeds into her self-loathing, when Lee gets so insanely furious about it later. Reinforces her "I'm a fuck-up, see how much? stay away from me, I'm not worth it" thinking.

jmo, of course.

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

Which is perfectly valid. I agree with you that Kara has a large amount of self-loathing to carry her through her days. But does that self-loathing work with wearing something to get Lee to notice her? I suppose it would have to do with why she wanted him to notice her. Did she want him to notice her as a sexual being? Or as something else?

[themonkeycabal.livejournal.com]

Well, I reckon if we accept one of the truths being that she is in love with him, despite her self-loathing, she may feel the need to test him. She may hate herself to the degree that she doesn't feel she deserves to be loved, and certainly her screwing up with Zak would reinforce that ("check me out. I suck so much I got my fiance killed"), and yet, despite how much it might freak her out and spook her, she would also want to be loved in return. If nothing else, Lee is her best friend, the one person she's closest to in the universe, perhaps save Adama.

I'll go with it as a test for Lee; she was pushing and she wasn't prepared to deal with the results. I think if he'd looked at her and made a joking comment to her as a buddy, that would have hurt but she'd have been better able to cope and internalize that, because it would just be part of what she already "knows" about herself. Instead he reacted to her as a woman, and it scared her. She wanted that and she feared it at the same time.

Maybe.

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

I love this analysis!

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

ita absolutely...

and re the dress from a practical standpoint, do remember that a battlestar is the space equivalent of an aircraft carrier...a self-contained city in space. barbers, tailors, laundry and seamstress services, etc. they'd have to have that to be fully autonomous in order to carry out their long term military missions.

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

I understand that you're very invested in this, but we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because I'm pretty sure that aircraft carriers do not carry around all the fixins for formal gowns. They're floating/flying fortresses, not shopping malls.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

i'm not invested. i just disagree and see it from a different point of view.

[thevaliumsofalj.livejournal.com]

One thing I think perhaps is being forgotten is that before the Cylons attacked, I'm sure that any and all of the soldiers got to have what's called "shore leave" in different "ports". They tend not to dress in uniform when they're taking a break, at least from what I've heard from people that are in the military..

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

She wanted that and she feared it at the same time.


I think you're dead on ... that she wanted him to notice that she's beautiful (of course, I think he HAS already, but being Lee wouldn't show it) and be attracted to her, but then when he is, probably the intensity of it all is too much for her so she goes for Baltar instead... (Dude, I hope he, like, WASHED between the skanky poor-man's-SatC-Miranda Look-a-like reporter in the toilet and boffing Starbuck, because EWW!)

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

LOL!

[themonkeycabal.livejournal.com]

(Dude, I hope he, like, WASHED between the skanky poor-man's-SatC-Miranda Look-a-like reporter in the toilet and boffing Starbuck, because EWW!
EW squared. See, now I have to go wash, because ... dude, world of ew.

and also, heh.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

2) I think she wore it because Lee told her she needed to wash her jacket, (which, btw, I thought was AWESOME.) thereby implying that he sees her as significantly less than feminine. So she set out to prove to him that she could out-hot the Joneses.

Yup! I love that "you have hygiene?" comment - I think that's probably when Kara decided she needed that dress (and she does look beautiful in it). I also agree that once Lee reacts to her the way she wants him too, she gets all weirded out by the whole thing and pushes him away again (even if she doesn't consciously know she's doing it). And really, if she'd never said his name with Baltar, I doubt Baltar would have been so open about his jealousy, and then Lee wouldn't have known ...

That scene in the hangar bay breaks my heart for her; and I'm cheering her on when she punches Lee, by the way. Aaargh!

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

This is why I really, really, really want Baltar to break down and tell Lee what she said.

Because. Whoo. That would be fun.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

This is why I really, really, really want Baltar to break down and tell Lee what she said.

Hee! Yes, it would be fun – except that I think there’s no way in hell that any Guy A would tell Guy B that the girl Guy A was boffing called out Guy B’s name in the throes of passion. Because talk about your emasculation there … Heh!

I’m waiting for Lee to be in charge of the mission to rescue everyone on Kobol (because what are the pilot options now Boomer’s shot Adama; Starbuck is missing; Crashdown is on the planet – Hot Dog? Um, no!) and be the one to find Baltar waltzing with an either imaginary or entirely real Six. That could get … interesting!

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

I could make it work! It would start with a fight, and then some punching, because Lee would be really angry with Baltar for having sex with his girl, and then Baltar would allude to something, and then Lee would go to Kara and be like "What did you do?" "Lee--" "What did you do, Kara?"

And then, in this fabulously bitter tone, possibly on the hangar deck, just before her cockpit canopy comes down, she'd say something that could be interpreted one of several ways, and then take off and fight Cylons and maybe get shot down or something, and then Lee would sort of figure it out.

And he'd be all happy! Only when Kara comes back, and he confronts her, she'll deny it categorically, in a really mean and dismissive way, like, um, I'm sorry, you think I have sexual thoughts about you?

And he'll be so sad! And then of course it would turn out that someone- possibly Adama- told her that Lee needs to keep his edge, and if she fucks it up by entangling him in some kind of warped romance, she's dooming him, so for his own good, she rejects him.

*wallows in angst*

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, I am kind of swooning from all the delicious hurt-y angst that is inherent in this scenario … Can we have a side of “frack you, asshat” from Kara as well? Like that he always wants to believe the worst of her, and she loooooves him and she wants him, sorta, to know that she does, but the main part of her doesn’t want him to know, but if he REALLY loved her he’d guess anyway?

We really are all about the pain!

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

Swooning? ME TOO! Gosh, I love angst. Sigh.

I need to somehow avoid the inevitable idiots who are going to be like "Why can't lee and kara get maaarrrieed???????"

[ancarett]

As I posted elsewhere, I think the dress was chosen deliberately to pique Lee because of the hygiene remark. Be careful what you say, Captain, because you were so burned by the results! And I did love her comment that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity.

As for the source, I keep thinking that Ellen Tigh has a secret horde of slinky dresses which Kara raided. Either that or Galactica's commissar is damned well supplied in fancy wear! (Hey, maybe that's how Lee knew to walk up to the strange blonde in the bar -- he'd seen the dress before on other pilots!)

Yes, it's a bit waffy, but I like the way that Kara's right back in her ordinary clothes afterwards. That redeems this outfit from being Makeover!Kara fanfic.

[ancarett]

Er, crud, I meant hoard. Hoard. Really!

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

Aside from imagining Ellen Tigh's horde of dresses stalking people, cutting throats, etc, where did her secret hoard come from? According to her story, some good samaritan carried her onto whichever ship she was on. So she didn't have it with her. Could she have collected it by scavangering or something?

I should point out of course, that I think Ellen Tigh is a cylon.

It wouldn't have worked if Kara had've stayed in the dress and similar clothes. Because that is not Kara. Also, impractical as a military officer on a battleship in the middle of war. :o)

[endlessdeep.livejournal.com]

I went ahead and friended you because of all the bsg. Hope that's OK.

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

is cool.

[hercircumstance.livejournal.com]

She won it off of Baltar playing cards. He seems to have a lot of civies. *cough* Yeah, that's what happened.

All the women were dressed up so maybe someone donated their things for the event on a return basis. With 50,000 people someone had to have a slinky dress. Especially considering we don't know what all the ships were doing out there before the attack. Maybe there was a cruise type ship out there and people who packed lots of slinky dresses. :)

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

He seems to have a lot of civies.

He does! And we know that he likes to bet them too. I bet he's sexing the general population in order to get clothes.

To me the most likely is some sort of central pooling depot. Or something. I'm not convinced about the returns thing, because, yo, what need is there for that stuff in space, when some people lost everything, you know? I think maybe everyone would have been told to donate everything bar one or two things.

[hercircumstance.livejournal.com]

Just had a wild thought: Wouldn't it be funny if they all had to start wearing stuff from the Galactica Gift shop? It was mentioned in the mini after all.

[grass-stained.livejournal.com]

I found this through themonkeycabal, and I'm inclined to go with #3. My reasoning harkens back to "Flesh and Bone," where Leoben guesses that Kara prays to Artemis and Aphrodite. Assuming (which is never good, I know) that the Lords of Kobol bear some resemblence to the Greek gods, Artemis was the goddess of the hunt, a warrior, which Kara undoubtedly is, and Aphrodite was the goddess of love, which I believe Kara has great potential for (eg, I believe she loved Zak, and I believe she could/does love Lee). So to me it makes sense that she would have both the tough tomboy side and the "flirty" feminine side.

Love the discussion, just wanted to add,

[(Anonymous)]

ALL the people at the Colonial Day celebration thing were dressed up, and I don't believe for a minute that they all happened to have had fancy clothes when they escaped certain cylon death.

I think that it's likely that there were resources pooled so that all the attending guests had access to nice clothes. Sort of the way they requisitioned the fancy ship. They were going all out, trying to make this a formal occasion, a reminder of how things used to be. You don't see anyone there wearing ripped jeans.

So if there was a collection of formal wear available to the guests, Kara could have borrowed something from that.