[CoD] some thoughts i've had on Children of Dune

[bantha_fodder]

Sloane, you've read all this before.

CoD - A Brief Summary (of the book)

So, Paul Atreides has gone out into the desert to die, because he is blind and that is what blind Fremen do, even though he is like a god. This leaves his sister Alia in charge, looking after the twins and acting as regent to the universe, which Paul has conveniently gift-wrapped and left for her.

But fear not! Because Paul is secretly THE PREACHER, a blind guy in a dirty robe who wanders in from the desert to tell everyone how they've twisted Muad'dib's words, and everyone should just shut up. Alia's priests want to kill him, but Alia refuses because she secretly hopes that the Preacher really is Paul. Also, the Preacher keeps manipulating things.

Jessica has FORSAKEN her, which makes her very angry, and it is rumoured that she (Jessica) has returned to her Bene Gesserit ways.

I can't tell if Irulan likes Alia or hates Alia. Seriously. Very mixed signals.

I should mention, also, that Alia is possessed by her grandfather, the Baron Harkonnen, whom she killed when she was (it's been years since I read Dune, but she was maybe five or six? Maybe?) small. He was FAT and EVIL, and likes giving her headaches until she does what he wants her to. Usually this is have sex.

Alia married Duncan Idaho, who loves her very much, but his love for Alia is not as great as his love for the Atreides family, so when she's all "I want you to kill my mother because SOMEONE IS AFTER ME," he sort of backs away very slowly and nods in agreement at the same time as thinking that perhaps he'll not. And he realises that it is not Alia at risk, it is the twins!

And he is not wrong! There is a plot to kill the twins, and it is all the fault of the House Corrino, headed by Susan Sarandon Princess Wensicia, who is pissed that she's no longer in the line to be Empress or whatever. And Farad'n is IN ON IT, but suspects poison, not tigers.

Which brings us to THE TWINS. The twins, being cleverer than everyone else in the universe (but only nine years of age), know that someone is out to get them. They even (being masters of exposition) work out that it will be via some sort of animal, and it is all House Corrino's fault. So they run away from Sietch Tabr where they have been hanging out, and the tigers chase them and Ghanima gets hurt but they kill the tigers anyway. Then Leto wanders off to find a worm to ride into the desert, and Ghanima hypnotises herself into believing that Leto is dead, so that if a truthsayer should interrogate her, they will believe that Leto is dead.

Summary of this last paragraph? The twins are HARDCORE.

Anyway, back with the people who aren't HARDCORE, the Lady Jessica has made a run for it, secure in the knowledge that her daughter is Abomination and wants to kill her. Then Duncan turns up and claims to be saving Jessica, but actually kidnaps her and takes her to Salusa Secundus, which is where House Corrino has been banished.

Farad'n banishes Princess Wensicia for killing the twins (even though he totally wanted her to), and convinces Jessica to train him in the Bene Gesserit way. Farad'n, surprisingly, has backbone like WOAH here, and I like him much better this way (but Ghanima still bullies him later. GO GHANIMA). Duncan denounces his allegiance to House Atreides (or something), although I suspect that this is just a ploy to manipulate Farad'n, who has cameras facing every angle in every room (secretly, Farad'n is a perve, and I remain unsurprised). ALSO, Farad'n is addicted to spice, but wears contacts so that nobody knows.

BACK ON ARRAKIS, Ghanima kills the dude responsible for the tigers, and Leto is taken captive and held in a sekrit desert sietch by Gurney Halleck on orders from the Lady Jessica (BENE GESSERIT BITCH, for those not paying attention), in order to ensure that Leto will be able to lead and not fall into Abomination. Does this mean that they all knew about the trick by the twins? This remains unexplained. Also, it is at about this time that Alia realises that The Preacher is actually her brother.

Somebody decides that it would be a great idea if Ghanima were to marry Farad'n. I can't remember who. A reminder that the body she is in is nine years of age, although of course the point is that she herself is not, and Farad'n is seventeen (He should get together with Sabiha, who we meet really soon now). Ghanima agrees to the engagement on the condition that she gets to kill Farad'n after the wedding. Ghanima is definitely the blood-thirsty twin. Alia is totally okay with it, which is unsurprising as she is ALL ABOUT THE KILLING. Irulan gets all grossed out and remembers that Ghanima is a Freman child, and Freman children are used to killing the wounded on the battlefield, so this is no different. And Ghanima yells at them both a lot.

At this point, Frank Herbert interrupts the action to remind the reader that everyone has plans for Ghanima, but nobody stops to think if the twins had plans, until it is too late. DUN DUN DUHHHHN.

Back at the sekrit desert sietch, Leto is being drugged heavily with spice, and it is confusing him and all the ancestors he carries. It gives him visions of all possible futures, and then he tries to seduce a seventeen year old. I WISH I WAS KIDDING. He has dreams about a possible future with the two of them.

Alia decides to kill Duncan, and he is very sad. And then Jessica changes Farad'n from Corrino to Bene Gesserit. (Dear Frank, WTF? Best.)

Leto makes some spice smuggler bite his (Leto's) thumb so they can share blood so they can't kill each other. Or something.

PLOTS WITHIN PLOTS: Gurney has been manipulated by Alia - it was Alia sending lovenotes, not Jessica. Then Gurney starts killing people.

BACK TO LETO, who has let the worms cover him. The descriptions are really gross. Really, really gross. All membranes and thin skin and I picture James McAvoy made ugly and it makes me very sad.

Duncan slays Javid (a priest who has been boffing Alia), and Stilgar (a leader) kills Duncan. Alia thinks Duncan provoked Stilgar on purpose, forcing Stilgar to run and hide in the desert and take Irulan and Ghanima with him.

Many months pass. Seriously, that's how much attention is paid to the many months.

Leto's ego GROWS AND GROWS. Nothing can stop him, and he knows it. Alia kidnaps Ghanima, and gets her ready for the wedding. Apparently Fremen wedding garb is black and one gets to carry a knife. Which explains A LOT.

Then Leto turns up and saves the day, and says the magic word so that Ghanima remembers that he is not dead. And The Preacher dies. And Alia throws herself out a window. And Ghanima is a bitch to Farad'n, all cold and icy and "Bitch. Please." And Leto and Ghanima will marry each other, but Farad'n will actually father the children because apparently Leto no longer has any loins.

ALSO, the secret of the twins is revealed: Leto is secretly Abomination, but is super cool so isn't crazy like Alia. (To which I ask: how do we know?)

Leto will be God Emperor (or, as we in the Perth SF scene like to say, a giant worm) for three thousand years.

THE END OMG.

*

Comparing THE BOOK to THE MINI SERIES.

The most important thing that you need to know is that in the book the twins are nine years old. In the mini, they are sixteen AND HOT. Seriously. I am grateful that the twins were aged up because a - acting abilities; b - uhm, i'm far more comfortable with alleged incest between sixteen year olds than nine year olds, and c - HULLO JAMES MCAVOY.

Twins looking pretty here.

Susan Sarandon is the mother of all exposition in this fucking thing, and she's here because she loves the books. Apparently. She was specially approached and really enthusiastic and everything. Anyway, Wensicia is Irulan's younger sister. The reason why she is played by Susan (and therefore much older than Irulan, who is played by one of the Childlike Empresses) is because apparently the use of both spice and the Bene Gesserit games slows the aging process. Which is why Alia also looks the same.

Farad'n gets a backbone much earlier in the book than in the mini, but still gets BITCHSLAPPED by Ghanima. GO GHANIMA.

Alia sends Irulan and Ghanima to Sietch Tabr in the book, as opposed to in the mini where Alia is raging around trying to get Ghanima back. The differences in the Irulan - Alia relationship are VERY INTERESTING.

PS listen to the soundtrack. Seriously. You won't regret it.

*

Inappropriate Relationships (OR, the bit where pen talks about incest)

I'd like to start with this picture: in the mini-series, Ghanima and Leto make out. Several times.

Frank Herbert attacks incest: Ghanima says to Leto several times that she will not have his child, and he's all "ew" at the concept. Also, Leto tells Stilgar (p109): "'It was usual in ancient times for kings and queens to do this,' Leto said. 'Ghani and I have decided we will not breed.'"

BUT THEN, Frank Herbert backflips, and sends me mixed signals:

Okay, so, we can sort of give FH the benefit of the doubt: I mean, the twins do have thousands of ancestors inside them, so mix ups of personality were inevitable, but I made notes.
p52, Alia/Leto II (remember, Alia is his aunt), wherein Ghanima speculates that Leto has a terrible fascination with their aunt, and Jessica wonders if Alia is drugging him.
p90 features Jessica/Leto II, where Jessica fantasises (about her grandson, in case I forgot to make that clear) that he is in fact her long-dead husband, and how easy it would be to make him act as her husband.
I can't be bothered listing all the twincest. Just, there is lots. They dress with secret unison (Dear FH, WTF?); p74 "Leto stared into his sister's eyes...He smiled appreciatively at Ghanima." And don't forget that they do marry each other.

HAHA I knew I'd find Paul/Alia in here. Alia is called 'the Womb of Heaven,' and guess who the god is? For those of you not paying attention, the god is her brother, Paul. Also re: Alia/Paul, when she's trying to decide if the Preacher is Paul, he speaks and "A thrill ran through her, almost sexual in its undertones." (p213)

*

Women in Dune (OR, pen talks about Frank Herbert's possible misogynistic undertones)

I say 'possible' because in some of these situations it's difficult to tell what he was thinking. Also, this is sort of in point form because I'm sick of this now and just want to post it and work on my essay. SO.

Let's start with: Ghanima = spoil of war. Leto says that he might have to give his sister to a monster, and at the end when he is accepting allegences from the Fremen tribes the following occurs: He rocked forward, brought up the hem of Ghanima's robe, ripped a thin strip from it. 'In return, I give you this bit of Ghanima's robe, the robe she wore when she was stolen from your desert camp, forcing me to save her.' (p375)

Fremen women become betrothed at fifteen, and Ghanima calls Irulan 'childless wife of my father' as an insult during an argument.

Wensicia goes silent during an argument, assuming that Tyekanik and Farad'n arguing against her is a sign that they think her a lightheaded fancy woman with no - <-- and there the text breaks off. I'm not sure what to think of this one.

Alia flees, Jessica flees. Stilgar flees into the desert to escape Alia's retribution, and takes all of his wives with him. All of his wives. Of course they will flee with him, he says, as if he expected nothing less.

Alia is puppet master, but she is controlled by the Baron.

Those who become abomination are more likely to be female. '[M]ore susceptible to that inner tide.'

*
notes:
i used the edition published by New English Library in 1977.
all screen caps used were made by wiccachik, taken from her fantastic archive of screencaps, and used without her permission but hosted by me. so hopefully that's cool.

Comments

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

I don't think I've read CoD. Or maybe I have. The point is that in my teens I read a bunch of Dune books, and I found them interesting, yet PROFOUNDLY confusing.

And there was one big thing that really troubled me. It'd be like "Yes! The Bene Gesserit (sp) are sitting on chairs made out of dogs and talking about politics."

*fast forward three thousand years*

"The Bene Gesserit are turning a planet into a desert for sekrit reasons. Nothing else has changed."

I know I'm strange and nit-picky, but it really bothered me that these vast swathes of time would go by and there would be no technological or social advances. WTF?

Also, in The Future, In Space, you can't name people "Jessica", because, no. No.

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

Definitely confusing. Not least because old Frank liked to change POV in the middle of a scene.

And he was really bad with time. Like, 'she spent five months on a rock and then' is how much detail he gives to time passing, which sucks, especially as he leaves the universe the same, although he could use the excuse that Leto the Giant Worm was supressing any technological discovery, although even that explanation annoys me.

Can't name Jessica, but Leto and Ghanima and Alia and Irulan are all great names which I approve of.

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

Yes! Those are excellent names. Paul is all right, too. Jessica is just too 1979.

Also, since I'm nit picking, it bothered me that they could grow clones in tanks and stuff and yet were unable to synthesize Spice. How is that possible?

[charis]

Damn you! Now I really want to go rent this and Dune and finally watch them.

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

DO IT! BEST EVER!

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

zeplum pointed this way, and I'm glad she did because this recap is hilarious. The mini was *so* full of twincest. Oh my god. Did you read the TWoP recap? "And then they kiss" was the running joke, until they actually did.

I read Dune when I was around twelve (about the time the David Lynch movie came out), and remember being incredibly disappointed with the sequels, but time has mellowed me on Children of Dune. I think it doesn't hurt that James McAvoy wandered around shirtless for most of the mini.

(reposting to use my CoD icon!)

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

THERE IS A TWOP RECAP? *searches*

You need to see the icon I am using for this comment. It is James without a shirt - from the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. He likes acting sans shirt, and we are not going to stop him.

"And then they kiss" was the running joke, until they actually did.

HAHA excellent.

Yeah, took forever for me to read CoD, especially as I loved Dune (the novel) so much. I just found CoD really boring the first time I tried to read it. This time, I had the motivation of Leto and Ghani (and my obsessive need to find out if the twincest was so obvious in the books as they made it in the mini) to keep me going.

And EXCELLENT CoD icon! *g*

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

Part I: http://televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=56&story=4849&limit=all&sort=tit_sort

Part II: http://televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=56&story=4856&limit=all&sort=tit_sort

Part III: http://televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=56&story=4867&limit=all&sort=tit_sort

Have you seen McAvoy in State of Play? BBC America aired it last year and he had a supporting role. His shirt stayed on, alas.

When I tell people to read Dune, I also tell them to avoid everything after. I remember being *crushed* when I read Dune Messiah, because OMG, how could Paul turn into *that*?!

[wildtiger7.livejournal.com]

Yay! TWP recap! *goes to read*

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

More importantly, how could LETO turn into A GIANT WORM?

I have not seen McAvoy in State of Play. I must get my hands on it, although he remains woefully shirted.

[ilanala]

You're making me want to rewatch the miniseries(es) now. I should pester my brother about buying them like he keeps saying he wants to.

Are the books worth reading? I started reading Dune right after I watched the mini and came to the conclusion that it was the same story, only a lot more complicated, and then I got distracted and didn't bother to give it a chance.

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

You should totally rewatch. It is GREAT.

The books are an interesting read, but kind of difficult. Herbert changes POV a lot, and the histories get quite convoluted. It took me three goes to actually read Children of Dune. I first read Dune several years ago, but got bored halfway through Dune Messiah, and had to start again. *g* When I finally read CoD, it was by starting there, and not bothering with Dune and Dune Messiah.

[munchkin62.livejournal.com]

You should read the books. CoD is actually 2 books put together! Children of Dune and Dune Messiah. I read all six books and they are amazing! super confusing at times. I will have to reread the whole series again to understand the stories a little more!

Yay Reading!

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

But Dune Messiah was so BORING. Although the part of the mini that was Dune Messiah was fun.

(Uh, you realise I have read the books, yeah?)

whoops!

[munchkin62.livejournal.com]

oh yeah, sorry... i try to tell everyone to read good book series cuz it makes you smarter (oh wait a minute...) okay me notwithstanding, i just blurt it out to everybody... and yeah, the whole worm thing got a little boring and confusing by the end... :D

you know i bought CoD on DVD like, 2 years ago and still have not watched it? wow! Just realized that!

Thanks!

[spacedoutlooney.livejournal.com]

Here from childrenofdune. I've seen both mini series about a millions times and read Dune and Dune Messiah. Not Children of Dune yet, so this recap was really informative. Thanks.

[alexi-lupin.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this, it makes everything that much more clear.

Plus, you'e funny, which never goes astray. =D

[grimorie.livejournal.com]

Do you know why I love you? It's because you made NOTES! Notes! of Children of Dune! *loves*

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

HAHA. It is more evidence of my obsession with Dune. Have you read everything that I have tagged for it? I AM OBSESSED.

:o)

[grimorie.livejournal.com]

It is 2009 and I've only JUST finished reading Children of Dune. So, I came back here and I still agree with your thoughts on both miniseries and book.

I can't tell if Irulan likes Alia or hates Alia. Seriously. Very mixed signals.

*nods* Yes, I couldn't tell too. I mean, I thought Irulan liked her and then the next. I couldn't make up my mind. Although, its probably more that Irulan is only loyal to the twins?

Um. Also, in the book I kind of started shipping Irulan with Duncan and then Alia.

In the book its a lot clearer that Jessica is a fail!parent to Alia.

[copracat]

Summary of this last paragraph? The twins are HARDCORE.

You speak truly. If you have all those lives, all those memories, you must know the cost of failed courage which can only make you hardcore.

and I picture James McAvoy made ugly

There is truly nothing that can make James McAvoy ugly.

(To which I ask: how do we know?)

Indeed.

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

OH I LOVE THE TWINS. and they are totally hardcore.

Even covered ("covered") in the worm skin, he was still incredibly hot.