[meme] talking about

[bantha_fodder]

I am bored and avoiding cleaning my house.

Ask Me My Fandom Opinion
How this works:
1. Ask me one fandom-related question. This can be fandom specific, general, or about fandom/lj stuff/fic writing/etc. in general.
2. ONE QUESTION. May include subparts.
3. That's it. It can be as normal or odd as you like.

I am going to use my John and Teyla icon because John and Teyla is a TOTALLY REASONABLE PAIRING.

Oh wait also: favourite het and gen vids at non_txt. My recs are here.

Also also, you can download those new SGA and SG1 promos from here. There are three so far: Teal'C, Sam and John. And I am so tempted to start actually watching the SGA newsletter. What is fandom doing to me?

Comments

[mandysbitch.livejournal.com]

When will you start writing me McShep?

Ha ha ha ha! Okay, serious question: What makes the perfect crossover? What is the special ingredient that makes it work?

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

I laughed out loud when I read that. And I want to answer it! I can't. I don't really get McKay/Shep. Like, I see that friendship, but an author really has to work to make me believe the McKay/Shep pairing, which actually explains why I'm falling into reading long, plotty fics in SG:A. And even then, this is so dumb but I am owning this fandom opinion, so I have to admit that even then, if I can't believe the friendship that John has with Teyla, then I can't believe the McKay/Shep pairing that's presented in the fic.

The Perfect Crossover relies heavily on being faithful to both works. Clearly, there are changes to both universes, but characterisations need to be right, and histories and situations. A perfect crossover will contain all the essential elements of each character. Clearly I need an example.

BSG/The Pretender, a topic on which I can happily waffle for quite a long time. Miss Parker and Jarod in space. Jarod still needs to be (in brief): living in wonderment; discovering things; on the run; Jarod. Miss Parker needs to be a hard-arsed bitch. She saw her mother die. Tommy is still dead. That whole thing with her father and Lyle and Mr Raines is still an issue. She intimidates Broots and Sydney is bemused by her and adores her. She chases Jarod because she has to but when he calls she listens and when he's there she lets him run. She still needs to be Parker. So we move her into the fleet. Just because the situation changes doesn't mean she is different. She is still all of those things, and her reactions to her situation should still be so clearly Miss Parker.

Another example: Law and Order: SVU/The West Wing. Again a merging of the universes, and I don't see this sort of merging (current Earth + current Earth) as being any different to the previous one (current Earth + made up SF culture). The characters have to be written brilliantly, and the situations have to be feasible.

It is for this reason that I don't believe crack AUs can be perfect crossovers. I mean, Miss Parker and Kara end up in a world of fluffy bunnies. I can't - it might be awesome, but it's not a feasible sitation for either universe. Unless the world of fluffy bunnies turns out to be part of some Centre experiment, because the Galactica and its fleet turned up on Earth and the Centre was like "score!" in terms of experimentation and advancement, and they're trying to get Kara to confess things to Miss Parker or something.

Another thing I don't believe can ever be a part of the perfect crossover: drop ins. A worm hole opens and Buffy drops through. That's great, and it's fun, and it can be awesome, but it's not perfect unless the worlds meld seamlessly and a fic where one character has just been unceremoniously dropped in can't be seamlessly melded.

THE END.

[mandysbitch.livejournal.com]

if I can't believe the friendship that John has with Teyla, then I can't believe the McKay/Shep pairing that's presented in the fic.

Are you saying you're having trouble with the Shep/ Teyla pairing? I found it *very* difficult to like Teyla (or John for that matter... He's really not my favourite character. I think he just makes a good foil for Rodney) to begin with. I like her more now - and that's partly because Rachel Luttrel is so cute (and funny!) and stuff. But for the first season she annoyed the crap out of me. I don't mind John/ Elizabeth (but I like Elizabeth/ Ronon WAY more!). I think I could buy Rodney/ anyone if it were told right. Mmmmm... Rodney/ Starbuck... Hee!

Just because the situation changes doesn't mean she is different. She is still all of those things, and her reactions to her situation should still be so clearly Miss Parker.

I sometimes wonder if this is easier to do with the Pretender - the show is vested in the characters (or rather, what we like about the show is vested in the characters). Transplant the characters and you transplant the show. Some shows are heavily reliant on their setting (Atlantis - maybe). When the setting goes it's much harder to recreate the characters. I don't know... I could be waffling. But there's something about The Pretender crossovers that is so appealing. But I *love* crossovers.

Unless the world of fluffy bunnies turns out to be part of some Centre experiment, because the Galactica and its fleet turned up on Earth and the Centre was like "score!" in terms of experimentation and advancement, and they're trying to get Kara to confess things to Miss Parker or something.

Okay - now I want someone to write this... ;)

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

Are you saying you're having trouble with the Shep/ Teyla pairing? I found it *very* difficult to like Teyla (or John for that matter.

Oh, no, I actually quite like the John/Teyla pairing. I find them the most believable pairing of the lot, in fact, which is what leads to my problems - I don't really see McKay/Shep on the show, so for me to believe it all the relationships I DO see on the show still need to work, be in character and all that. I don't necessarily see John and Teyla as a romantic pairing, but I think that they are very good friends, and that John respects Teyla and values her opinion. So if there's a McKay/Shep fic and Teyla's friendship with John is off, or more worryingly, not there, I can't believe the McKay/Shep.

I agree about Teyla - it took a long time for me to like her character, and Rachel Luttrel gets many points for making her awesome. And also I'm totally there for the Elizabeth/Ronon. I'm not sure why, but I am.

Transplant the characters and you transplant the show.

This has a lot to do with it, certainly. The Pretender was very character based, but at the same time even heavily setting based shows could still theoretically make effective crossovers, although I'm hard pressed to think of any examples just now.

Okay - now I want someone to write this... ;)

I knew you'd say that.

[mandysbitch.livejournal.com]

So if there's a McKay/Shep fic and Teyla's friendship with John is off, or more worryingly, not there, I can't believe the McKay/Shep.

I killed Teyla off in two of my McShep stories. It wasn't intentional. Kinda.

I guess if you want your McShep to be Teyla inclusive you're going to be disappointed. It's a story about McKay and Sheppard - naturally their priority relationships are with each other and everyone else will be peripheral. I say that from experience. I think John's relationship with Teyla is nice but I don't even think about Teyla when I'm writing McShep... So yes, non-existent. Definitely.

Actually, Elizabeth always gets more to do in my McShep stories... I think that's just how it's turned out. I haven't really found anything for Teyla to do in my stories. Or Ronon, actually... It might change one day...

at the same time even heavily setting based shows could still theoretically make effective crossovers

Oh definitely. It's always what you make of it. I guess there's just something extra appealing about The Pretender and the way they're sort of doomed to repeat their character patterns no matter what universe they're in.

[storydivagirl.livejournal.com]

What keeps you coming back to fandom, even on the really bad days?

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

I like to talk, and I love the potential of fandom. On the really bad days, all the wank and the crap and the terrible, awful writing and manips that make me hate the world, and the pairings that make me despair for humanity, on those days, I go away and I come back because I love what fandom is capable of. The pairings that make me squeal with joy, and the works of fiction that are so beautiful, and so amazing. And where else could I find people who will humour me when I am so happy over a pairing that never happened on a show that was cancelled five years ago?

[jadengreen36.livejournal.com]

I'll play. :->

Can 'shipping a particular pairing end up ruining your enjoyment of a show/book/movie/etc if the pairing doesn't end up coupling?

[bantha-fodder.livejournal.com]

The best pairings are never more than a liberal interpretation of canon. For me personally, I don't mind if a pairing doesn't get together, so there's no disappointment if they don't get together. If anything, if they DO get together, it increases my enjoyment. That's why fandom's so awesome.

If a particular pairing is the only reason why one enjoys a show/book/movie whatever, then of course that can lead to disappointment, but it doesn't have to. For example, I only enjoy Smallville for Chloe and Lex. They will never hook up, and that's okay, because I can read between the lines and entertain myself.

[jadengreen36.livejournal.com]

I watched General Hospital off and on for years. YEARS. And enjoyed it. Several years ago, a would-be pairing sparked for me, and there was so much chemistry between the actors, that I became enamoured with 'ship. It was very low key for a few years, then the show put them together (AWESOME!) but several months later suddenly yanked them apart, and tried to tie it up in the most hurriedly, contrived way possible. I continued to watch, but eventually I realized that I wasn't really watching anymore - I was merely spending 15 minutes with my finger on the fast-forward button, hoping to catch glimpses of 'my couple together'. I stopped watching for good after about a year and a half. I had totally lost every bit of enjoyment of the show, and nothing - no characters, no storyline - was doing it for me in any way.

Fast forward 2 more years, and the show seems to be reviving my couple. In the meantime, they have also brought back many fan-favourite characters. So I'm trying to start watching again, and it's been unexpectedly difficult. I want to enjoy ALL of my show again, and I have to struggle not to FF most of it.

I guess I feel like I am 'once burned twice shy'. I do not want an encore of getting kicked in the teeth, and I don't trust the show not to do that to me again.